LAP3 Uncle Chip review

[MurlinatoR]

So I wanted to post an update about something I mentioned early on; driving in Comfort mode. Last week I challenged myself to go at least 3 days using only Comfort, instead of only Sport. I wanted to see if it would have any effect on MPGs. I don't know what happened but driving in Comfort is COMPLETELY different than it was the first few days; it's actually pretty fast now!

I take back everything I said before, it's not groggy in Comfort, instead I would say it's simply relaxed. In fact I've been driving strictly in that mode for exactly a week now. Even with me beating on it just as I did in Sport, I'm averaging about 2 miles per gallon better than I was when I used only Sport (hasn't dropped below 20 yet).

I can't say enough good things about this chip. I'll try to get some acceleration videos next time we get above 60 outside.

That, my friend, is the beauty of an intelligent transmission! Kia's got it programmed to watch some key driver inputs and to adjust mapping so suit.

Enjoy!

 

[KiaFan]

That, my friend, is the beauty of an intelligent transmission! Kia's got it programmed to watch some key driver inputs and to adjust mapping so suit.

Enjoy!

I get more impressed with the Stinger everyday

 

[DBurd]

I have this same box in my Optima. It connects to the MAP and TIP sensors. It basically sends back a lower pressure reading from the sensors to the ECU, which causes the ECU to turn up the boost a bit higher using the wastegate control solenoid. As boost (and airflow) goes up, the full time widebands keep the air/fuel ratio in check and the car adds fuel as necessary for the extra air. The car is not going to compensate around this change, since it doesn't know something has changed.

Can you explain the pros and cons of this from your understanding? I am looking for some kind of performance upgrade, but want to be wise.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Pros:

• Very easy 5 minute installation time.
• Removes just as easily and leaves no trace for the dealers to find.
• Good improvement in performance, even with marginal to no other supporting modifications (in my Optima, I had to change spark plugs and add catch cans - not required with the Stinger).

Cons:

• Good power increase, but more may be available with a tune.
• Has to be removed before going to the dealer, although this takes only a few minutes.

 

[kamauxx]

Pros:

• Very easy 5 minute installation time.
• Removes just as easily and leaves no trace for the dealers to find.
• Good improvement in performance, even with marginal to no other supporting modifications (in my Optima, I had to change spark plugs and add catch cans - not required with the Stinger).

Cons:

• Good power increase, but more may be available with a tune.
• Has to be removed before going to the dealer, although this takes only a few minutes.

Keith, doesn't the addition of catch cans negate the benefit of having a removable chip? Or are the catch cans also easily removable?

 

[winningGT]

A properly installed catch can should not impact a warranty claim. If anything it helps prolong the life of the engine. But as long as you replace the hoses, instead of splicing into them, you should be able to reverse it in just a few minutes.

 

[kamauxx]

I agree that it shouldn't impact a warranty claim but introducing a new component to a car usually does get dealerships to throw up a red flag. It's not like Mag/Moss which is protecting you from using in spec but non-OEM replacement parts. This is actually an addition to what's already installed on a car.

But if it only takes a few minutes to reverse I guess it'll come off with the chip in my case (if I decide to do this mod, that is).

Thanks.

 

[MurlinatoR]

I agree that it shouldn't impact a warranty claim but introducing a new component to a car usually does get dealerships to throw up a red flag. It's not like Mag/Moss which is protecting you from using in spec but non-OEM replacement parts. This is actually an addition to what's already installed on a car.

But if it only takes a few minutes to reverse I guess it'll come off with the chip in my case (if I decide to do this mod, that is).

Thanks.

PLUS, the dealership will always wonder "If they've done THIS to it, what else are they doing to it???"

 

[winningGT]

The best solution is just to have a good relationship with the service manager and/or GM. With a previous local car club, we had mod days and car shows at our local dealership. They typically want warranty work. If you're bringing them business or at least continuing to give them your business, they'll overlook minor things like a catch can especially.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Keith, doesn't the addition of catch cans negate the benefit of having a removable chip? Or are the catch cans also easily removable?

I leave the catch cans on when I take my car in for service. The mechanic showed the service writer the first time it came in, and I was called back to tell them what it was. I explained how it worked and they all agreed it was a good thing. Never an issue since.

 

[TJH]

Pros:

• Very easy 5 minute installation time.
• Removes just as easily and leaves no trace for the dealers to find.
• Good improvement in performance, even with marginal to no other supporting modifications (in my Optima, I had to change spark plugs and add catch cans - not required with the Stinger).

Cons:

• Good power increase, but more may be available with a tune.
• Has to be removed before going to the dealer, although this takes only a few minutes.

I saw a post on Veloster Turbo forum about piggybacks in general, that went like this:--


"Any form of signal manipulation on newer ECU's/vehicles is very dangerous.

Please let me explain.

Signal.modification of boost signal sends a false value to the ECU, thus ignition and fueling are targeted for a much lower boost value.

This lower boost signal will increase ignition timing to a point that would be considered dangers from a tuning/tuner standpoint. Also, you wot fuel mixture could potentially be compromised depending on how much boost the device is hiding, but that is not the scary part.

Part throttle boost will run in the high 14 to 1 air fuel ratio, because the device is hiding boost from the ECU. Driving around with 10 psi inside the engine at part throttle and the ECU is only seeing 2-3 psi, that is very dangerous and will impact the longevity of the engine over a long period of time.

Now, if that was not bad enough. At WOT you hide boost, have elevated ignition timing, for the hidden 26 psi that is actually being ran inside the engine. This will trip several safety monitors inside the ECU.

1. Knock protection will turn on, pulling ignition timing.
2. Acceleration limits will be hit, thus pulling spark energy from the ignition coils
3. Dump fuel for protection from the knock levels being triggered
4. GDI pump pressures are not optimal for target boost. The Delta pressure will be incorrect for pressure inside the combustion chamber, and fuel pressure deliver levels will be wrong for that calculated fuel pressure.
5. Cam timing and overlap will be wrong, because it's targeted based on cylinder fill, rpm and throttle position.

I can give many more instances and examples of what could happen, but these are just some of the few things we know to happen when using a signal modifier."


The statements in that post were about piggybacks in general. Perhaps, knowledgeable members could comment on these statements and their applicability to the LAP3 chip in particular. Thanks.

 

[MurlinatoR]

Well.....

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

 

[mldavis2]

I don't know enough about the system to be able to comment on [MENTION=555]TJH[/MENTION]'s post. One needs to know the sensors used in the entire system and what they are capable of reading. I don't own a service manual. It is one thing to "fool" the system into allowing more boost pressure, but unless the other sensors know the true changes and are able to prevent damage by maintaining their programmed limits, these piggyback chips could be dangerous to the long term health of the engine. Also be aware that there is a 30 minute recording time period allegedly stored in the computer for diagnostic (and likely warranty) purposes that stores data for recall and analysis. If you trick the boost pressure, it must show up with abnormal readings at other locations.

It is helpful to recognize that, ultimately, the entire computerized system is designed around controlling emissions by maintaining a chemically stoichiometric air/fuel ratio. Much of that balance is monitored by an oxygen sensor in the exhaust stream(s). Ultimately, the ECM/ECU (whatever you want to call it) will adjust everything to maintain that balance. How it does that varies by design, but it is unlikely that major damage would be seen in the short run as the ECU would "learn" and compensate.

Much of the copied text above makes some sense, but it is not particularly well written, and I would question the source very strongly.

A bit or research shows that "John from Tork" is John Bushbaum of Tork Motorsports. On the Veloster forum, several very upset customers are ranting about his "tune" on their Velosters. I would caution anyone running one of these piggyback chips to be very careful until you find out what really happens over the long run. You can read the whole list of upset customers on the velosterturbo.org forum under Product reviews - Tork Motorsports.

 

[Robs]

Isn?t a piggyback chip different from a tune?

 

[mldavis2]

Isn?t a piggyback chip different from a tune?

Yes, but it's a large part -- included.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Signal.modification of boost signal sends a false value to the ECU, thus ignition and fueling are targeted for a much lower boost value.

This ASSUMES that the boost signals are being manipulated in low throttle setting areas. That is generally not the case. I can't comment exactly to LAP3's map, but the bulk of the performance increase is at higher throttle settings, where boost is already supposed to be high and will already have that ignition and mapping for peak boost levels. Fueling is further adjusted based on wideband O2 feedback and timing is curtailed by knock sensing.

This lower boost signal will increase ignition timing to a point that would be considered dangers from a tuning/tuner standpoint. Also, you wot fuel mixture could potentially be compromised depending on how much boost the device is hiding, but that is not the scary part.

Sounds like a "tuner" trying to scare people buying an alternative device. Again, he's talking about changing boost dramatically a low throttle it sounds like. These boxes change boost where the boost is already near peak, and turn it up a bit more.

Part throttle boost will run in the high 14 to 1 air fuel ratio, because the device is hiding boost from the ECU. Driving around with 10 psi inside the engine at part throttle and the ECU is only seeing 2-3 psi, that is very dangerous and will impact the longevity of the engine over a long period of time.

Again, assumes you can make boost in those low throttle position areas and assumes the box is trying to add boost there.

Now, if that was not bad enough. At WOT you hide boost, have elevated ignition timing, for the hidden 26 psi that is actually being ran inside the engine. This will trip several safety monitors inside the ECU.

Maybe it's different on the Veloster platform, but the Optima never gets near 26psi. I have read the Stinger is even lower. On my Optima, it made 16.5psi stock and 20.9psi on the 91 octane setting. +4.4psi.

1. Knock protection will turn on, pulling ignition timing.
2. Acceleration limits will be hit, thus pulling spark energy from the ignition coils
3. Dump fuel for protection from the knock levels being triggered
4. GDI pump pressures are not optimal for target boost. The Delta pressure will be incorrect for pressure inside the combustion chamber, and fuel pressure deliver levels will be wrong for that calculated fuel pressure.
5. Cam timing and overlap will be wrong, because it's targeted based on cylinder fill, rpm and throttle position.
I can give many more instances and examples of what could happen, but these are just some of the few things we know to happen when using a signal modifier."
The statements in that post were about piggybacks in general. Perhaps, knowledgeable members could comment on these statements and their applicability to the LAP3 chip in particular. Thanks.

Sounds like a lot of scare tactics to me. I've had the LAP3 on my Optima for 20k miles without issue. Had one on my girlfriends Sonata 2.0T for 40k without issues. YMMV.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Also be aware that there is a 30 minute recording time period allegedly stored in the computer for diagnostic (and likely warranty) purposes that stores data for recall and analysis. If you trick the boost pressure, it must show up with abnormal readings at other locations.

If it did, that would negate the changes. That's the point of the box.

 

[mldavis2]

If it did, that would negate the changes. That's the point of the box.

No, there is a difference between the ECU controlling inputs vs. a simple recording function of what happened to the car prior to a malfunction. The recording function would have no control over anything, just watching sensor readings.

 

[WS6_Keith]

Isn?t a piggyback chip different from a tune?

A piggy back device plugs in line with sensors and skews the data (voltages) going back to the ECU. The ECU sees these adjusted signals and then changes the way it controls the engine in response. In the case of the LAP3 Uncle Chip, once it achieves a certain voltage (boost) level, it starts sending lower voltages back to the ECU. The ECU now thinks the boost is somewhat less than actual, and decreases wastegate duty cycle to increase the boost to hit its target in that range of RPM and throttle. This is how they get the boost increase. The car then uses the wideband O2 sensor to feedback and add additional fuel as necessary, for this increased airflow from increased boost.

A tune is a complete reflash of the stock operating system. In the tune, they could change these targets, as well as timing, fueling and anything else, without having to change what the ECU is seeing. This is where flash counters come into play. The dealers can see that you have reflashed your ECU "X" amount of times, and may bring that up. If you brought a flashed unit into the dealer, they may void your warranty. They may reflash a stock tune over your modified tune. If you don't have a tune delivery tool, you might have to pay to have the tune flashed back into the ECU again.

 

[WS6_Keith]

No, there is a difference between the ECU controlling inputs vs. a simple recording function of what happened to the car prior to a malfunction. The recording function would have no control over anything, just watching sensor readings.

OK, agreed. But if the sensor data that the ECU is recording is what is changed, how is that recording going to show anything outside of normal parameters?